The Top Pickup Artist Forum On The Internet: Fast Seduction 101

AsianRake is a member of the mASF forum.   Acronyms used in this article can be looked up on the acronyms page.  To get involved in discussions like this, you can join the mASF discussion forum at fastseduction.com/discussion.

Original discussion thread: http://fastseduction.com/discussion/fs?action=9&fid=173&read=82506

Do You Want Faster and More Powerful Seductions? How the 80/20 Principle applies to Push-Pull and Cocky-Funny

We’ve all heard about the 80/20 principle first developed by Vilfredo Pareto in the context of the distribution of income and wealth. My experience and observations have shown that the 80/20 rule applies just as well to push-pull and cocky-funny.

After closely observing naturals who are masters at crazily rapid escalations and seductions, and after a lot of discussions with PUAs who have really tight game, I’ve discovered an important enhancement to the simplistic push-pull and cocky-funny concepts. This small bit of fine-tuning can shave a lot of time off your seductions and create much stronger, closer emotional connections.

Here’s my thesis statement (yes, I’m an academic, lol): If you want to seduce a woman faster and have her more powerfully attracted to you, the optimal mix for a man who already has his fundamentals down (his body language^», tonality, and basic inner game^») and is interacting with a confident and attractive woman is 80% pull, 20% push.

I’m not going to be too strict about the numbers. But more accurately, the optimal combination depends on how good the man’s fundamentals are and how confident the woman is. It’s a continuum with the upper end of the continuum being 80-20 pull-push.

My experience has also been that pull-push is best mixed with humor. Plus, the pull and the push are opposite manifestations of cockiness. With push, you are cocky enough to think that you are too good for the girl, so you push her away. With pull, you are cocky enough to think that you are irresistible to her and to women in general, and you want her, so you pull her in.

Although there is plenty to say about this combination of push-pull and cocky-funny, I’ll leave that to another article. My focus here is on the 80/20 principle applied to the push-pull dynamic. I’ll assume here that it’s obvious that push-pull is closely connected to cocky-funny.

For the classic book on push-pull, see Swingcat’s ebook, Real World Seduction. For cocky-funny, the best authority is David DeAngelo. Check out his ebook, Double Your Dating^», and his DVD series, Cocky Comedy. I assume at least familiarity with push-pull and cocky-funny as described in these resources. Christian Hudson and Nick Sparks over at The Social Man are about to release a product that incorporates all the concepts in Swingcat and David D.’s books and then takes it all to another level. Watch at their site for the release. We’re good friends, so I’m a little biased, but you can go over there and check it out for yourself: http://www.thesocialman.com/index-new.php

What I say here is NOT for absolute newbies, who don’t yet have their fundamentals down (body language^», tonality, and basic inner game^»). If you still don’t know what good BL&T looks, sounds, and feels like, stop reading this and figure that out first.

My point here applies to elite game. It’s for guys who want to know what it’s like to live in the top 10%, or higher, of men in this world. That’s not to say this is advanced. It’s just not for beginners.

A quickie definition of push-pull straight from the pen of Swingcat: “Push-Pull is whenever you emotionally push a woman away from you and, then, emotionally pull her back in. Each Push creates an emotional space for each Pull.” We’ll be filling this out as we go along.

Now let’s unpack the thesis statement.

While you can succeed using almost any combination of push and pull (e.g., 80% push-20% pull, 50% push-50% pull), the combination that will generate the fastest seductions and most powerful connections is 80-20 pull-push or in other words, 80% pull-20% push. This is true only if the following also hold:

a. The man has good fundamentals (good body language^», tonality, tight inner game^» and is hence non-needy, etc.). This also applies if he is physically attractive or is perceived by the woman to have high social value.
b. The woman is unusually attractive in the man’s eyes, and she is confident about her value and attractiveness. This relates to Believability http://asianrake.com/2008/03/31/believability-the-key-to-elite-game/. She needs to be able to be confident^» enough in her self-worth to accept your advances.

If both those elements are in place, then the fastest and most powerful route to sex is a mix of 80% pull-20% push.

[CAVEAT: If the man only has average fundamentals and the woman is only of average confidence in her own attractiveness and value, then the optimal mix is further down the continuum and closer to 50-50 push-pull.

This is because pulling a woman closer to you emotionally is only effective when you already have a basic level of attraction from the woman. Of course, we all know that this kind of attraction is largely independent of one’s physical appearance. Over 90% of this kind of attraction is attributable to body language^» and tonality alone. That’s why I call these the fundamentals. Your attitude and outlook are also crucial to pulling off the right BL&T, so I include inner game^» as a factor for the sake of completeness.]

Pushing a woman away is effective when a woman looks at you and doesn’t expect you to be cocky. It throws her off and is hence funny.

It’s like when a precocious child talks like an adult, using mature and sophisticated vocabulary, sentence structure, etc. It’s unexpected and incongruent with the kid’s image, and hence, kind of funny, and if done right, it’s admirable.

Now imagine a 50 year old, sophisticated-looking man talking the same way. It’s not funny anymore. It’s just normal and expected.

Similarly, when a below average looking guy uses a lot of push cocky-funny, talking as if he’s too good for her and using humorous sarcasm, it’s attractive because the woman begins to wonder, “How can this guy be so cocky? He must have something going for him that I can’t see yet. I’m interested.” And because it’s done in a comedic way, she’s not offended, but rather, intrigued.

Now if a guy who has his fundamentals down (good BL&T), a good-looking guy, or a guy perceived to have high value starts to push her away emotionally, she’s not intrigued. Why? Because it’s obvious why this guy is so cocky. He’s good-looking, high-value, or has an attractive personality. It’s not funny anymore because it’s expected and congruent with his image. He just comes across cocky. For a guy like this to use cocky-funny, he has to really emphasize the humor and really cut down on the cocky part.

Most people overlook the fact that David D. himself acknowledged this in one of his newsletters:

If you're a pretty good looking guy, you might turn down the cocky, and turn up the funny. Women perceive good-looking guys who act cocky as MAJOR PLAYERS, and too much cocky too soon can backfire on you.”

More accurately, this isn’t just true for guys who are good-looking. If your fundamentals are strong, or you’re perceived as high-value, then it applies just as well to you.

It’s the push dynamic that makes these high-value or good-looking guys come across as too unattainable. For guys like this, it’s best to use the pull dynamic more often and save the push dynamic for that 20% of dramatic contrast.

And obviously, when a guy with good fundamentals, attractive appearance, or high social value is perceived as a “major player,” it is very bad for his Believability http://asianrake.com/2008/03/31/believability-the-key-to-elite-game/.

You can do it the opposite way, of course. You can do mainly push and just a little pull, like 80% push and 20% pull. Or you can be very cocky and only a little funny. Sure, you can get success that way, too.

But for the most part, if your fundamentals are already strong, then:
1) You can get much faster seductions by pulling her in more often than you can by pushing her away.
2) You can get the girl to feel a deeper emotional bond with you by pulling more often than pushing.

Here’s why:

1. If your fundamentals are good, then you will be a relatively DOMINANT, powerful, and confident man. Hence, girls (and most people in general) will naturally feel like following your lead. So when you tell a girl to sit down, she will feel a strong social and emotional pull to sit down. When you’re emotionally pulling a girl in by telling her to kiss you, she will have to work extra hard to resist. Most girls like a strong, dominant, powerful, confident guy, and many girls have the fantasy of “being taken” by such a man. Any resistance they give to such a man is just token.

Thus, if you already have good fundamentals (BL&T and basic inner game^»), and you want to shave massive amounts of time off your seductions, you’re better off pulling the girl in more frequently than pushing her away because the chances are good she will give in more often than not.

Ah, but Asian Rake, when you push a girl away, doesn’t she want to pull you in? Isn’t that the whole point of pushing her away? So you can get her to chase you?

Yes, to a certain extent, this is true. That’s why you SHOULD STILL PUSH. That’s the all-important 20%. In fact, by pulling most of the time, when you do finally push her away, it’ll feel that much more powerful to her.

If you’re a dominant guy, girls will feel pressure to follow your orders, and unless she’s very dominant herself, chances are good that she will NOT pull you in return every time you push her away. Chances are good that if you are a dominant man, when you push her further away, she will follow your lead and remain further away.

Assuming the pushes and pulls are of about equal emotional intensity (that’s one variable I’m leaving out here), if you PULL more often than not, she might resist you at first, but then because you’re dominant, she’ll follow your lead and move closer to you emotionally and physically. If you PUSH more often than not, she might resist you at first, but then because you’re a dominant guy, she’ll follow your lead and move further away from you emotionally and physically.

Sure you can generate attraction with most combinations of push-pull. But what’s faster to sex? When she’s emotionally and physically closer to you, or when she’s emotionally and physically farther from you? It should be obvious.

This is how the best naturals I’ve seen get bathroom lays in less than 15 minutes.

It’s pull-pull-pull-pull-PUSH-pull-pull-pull-PUSH-pull-pull-pull to the bathroom.

2. By pulling more often than pushing, you can also create the deep emotional connections much faster.

If you’re continually pushing her away emotionally, however, how can she possibly feel an emotional connection? This should be obvious. A far more efficient way to develop emotional connections is to pull her in emotionally.

One very effective kind of pull technique is in conjunction with screening and qualifying. If your Believability game is good (see my article here: http://asianrake.com/2008/03/31/believability-the-key-to-elite-game/), then every qualification is actually a pull.

For instance, “Wow, you are really adventurous, I like that,” said in response to her little adventure story, is a great example of a pull.

When you stack enough of these, she’ll feel like you really appreciate her for her unique qualities. She’ll be saying to herself, “Wow, this guy really, truly, sincerely likes me for my special qualities.” And of course, she’ll want to open herself up and continue connecting with you.

Btw, this is also a key technique for creating the kind of emotional connections that will get girls to fall in love with you FAST. There are others, of course, like sharing secrets and using childhood regression, but this is one of the easiest to do.

Now let’s add the COCKY-FUNNY into the mix.

What exactly do I mean by Push Cocky-Funny vs. Pull Cocky-Funny?

Once again, probably the best way to illustrate what I mean is through examples.

PUSH COCKY-FUNNY

The prime proponent of this is David D. Let’s first talk about the internal mindset behind Push Cocky-Funny. David D. helpfully lays it all out in his Double Your Dating^»:

I’m going to play hard to get, make fun of her, be indifferent towards her, and generally bust her balls as much as possible. I know that she loves a guy that is so sarcastic that it makes her nervous, so I’m going to really keep the heat on... and when she starts to show any interest at all on the outside, I’m going to blow her off and make her prove to me that she wants me... so I can reject her again.

You notice that with this mindset, you’ll be pushing her away a lot more than you’ll be pulling her in. David D. follows this up with some now classic examples:

I do crazy things, like if I’m standing next to a girl at a bar, I’ll turn to her and say in a completely serious voice, “Will you PLEASE stop touching me?” And then look them right in the eye.

Or say, “What are you doing at a bar for godsakes? Can’t you find a nice normal guy? Or are you desperate?” All with a completely straight face.

I could go on forever, but you’re better off reading his ebook or watching his DVD series Cocky Comedy. Wow, I never thought I’d be plugging David D.’s materials, as if he needs to sell any more. LOL.

When most guys think “cocky-funny,” they’re thinking this kind of cocky-funny, which is what I call, “Push Cocky-Funny.”

PULL COCKY-FUNNY

This is my default style of cocky-funny, so I’ll give you one of my own examples.

I learned from a natural friend that this sort of thing is best done when you’re a bit over the top or dramatically exaggerated in what you say and in your facial expressions, tonality, and body language^».

This took place near the coat check of a huge nightclub, which is just about the only place in the club where you can talk without speaking right into her ear. A super cute, long-haired beauty walks by, and I jump in front of her with my hands slightly extended in front of my chest in a “stopping” motion with my palms out.

ME: OMG! (Then, with a sigh and a love-sick puppy dog look, I say after lowering my hands) I’m in love with you… Give me your number. (Pull #1)

HB (shocked): Huh? Are you crazy? Why?

ME (with an incredulous look on my face): Why? I mean, just look at you. You’re driving me crazy. It should be a crime for you to walk in public. (Pull #2)

HB (breaking out laughing): Where are you from?

ME: From? It doesn’t matter. I want your number. (Pull #3)

HB (laughing): No way. First tell me where you’re from.

ME: Okay, … guess.

HB: Um, China?

ME: Pretty close… (Taking a step closer to her so that we’re inches apart, I say in a quieter tone,) You know, you’re making me really nervous. My hands are all cold and sweaty. Here, feel. (Then, I take her hand in mine). (Pull #4)

HB (laughing): You’re not nervous.

ME (throwing off her hand and looking shocked): Are you calling me a liar? I’ve just confessed my deep dark love for you, and now you’re calling me a liar? That’s it. We’re getting a divorce… But I’m keeping the DVDs. You can have the dog. (Push #1)

HB laughed.

I said nothing and continued looking fake-mad.

HB said (with a smile): “Okay, bye,” and started walking off.

ME (stepping out in front of her again and knowing that she’s just teasing and wants me to chase her): No, wait. You can’t go. I’ll be so sad… I’m going to go home and cry now (and then I slumped my shoulders as if completely sad and depressed). (Pull #5)

HB laughed.

ME (perking up and letting out a sly smile): Okay, give me your number.

HB (laughs): Okay.
We talked a little bit more, then I let her go back to her friends.

I texted her about an hour later, and she texted back, asking what I was doing tomorrow… But that’s for another LR.

Notice the push-pull ratio here. That was 5 pulls to 1 push. The one push came after 4 pulls. In fact, I don’t even think that push was necessary.

This sort of Pull Cocky-Funny can get you super fast makeouts and, as my natural friends have shown, club bathroom sex. For an example of a fast makeout, see the LR that features my first encounter with Natural-MD: http://asianrake.com/2007/11/06/lr-first-snl-club-pull-in-under-25-minutes/. There are many other tales to recount about naturals such as him, some of which you can find elsewhere on my site and some of which I might write about in the future. You’ll have to check back for those ?

Another great example comes from Zan. Among the community old-timers, Zan is probably the best representative of this kind of cocky-funny. If you haven’t read any of his materials yet, check the mASF archives or google, “enlightened seduction.”

There are so many possibilities to choose from, but this conversation of his has stuck in my mind for a while now:

ZAN: Come out with me for a drink tonight. I will pick you up at 7.
HER: I can't. My boyfriend wouldn't like it.
ZAN: Oh hey, I understand... let's make it 8 then.

I never, ever worry about a woman's resistance to me. If she says she is not interested and leaves, no problem. But if I ever see her again, I immediately go up to her, smile and wink, and pick up right where I left off. As if she had never resisted me in the first place. In other words, her boyfriend objections (or whatever) mean nothing to me.

ZAN: (big smile) Hello, sweetie. Did you miss me?
HER: Hardly.
ZAN: I want to see you. Tell me your number and I'll remember it.
HER: No! I told you last time I have a boyfriend.
ZAN: Oh, so you're still seeing Norman?
HER: Uh... his name's not Norman.
ZAN: (smile, wink) Really? That's very interesting. I have two bottles of champagne at home.
HER: No thanks.
ZAN: One to drink and one to pour all over your body...
HER: You never give up, do you?
ZAN: Of course not! Wouldn't be the same if I did, would it?
HER (laughing) No, I suppose not...

I find this whole exchange completely charming and hilarious. Zan pulls her in about seven times. Just about everything he says is a pull.

He’s cocky because he believes that she’d be crazy to turn him down. So her objections don’t even register with him. This is the ideal kind of frame to be operating from when doing Pull Cocky-Funny.

So there you have it. Push Cocky-Funny vs. Pull Cocky-Funny. Both can work. But if you have good fundamentals (body language^», tonality, and basic inner game^»), or you’re good-looking, or you have high perceived social value, and you are interacting with a confident and attractive woman, then you can get faster seductions and make deeper connections by doing more Pull than Push, around 80%-20% is ideal. And keep it all funny ?

Feedback appreciated!