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Original discussion thread: http://fastseduction.com/discussion/fs?action=9&boardid=2&read=85082&fid=173
First of, when IS it ok to say "I love you"?
1. To your family: Kids, siblings, parents, and other BLOOD relations.
Why do people in Relationships say those three words? One word: OWNERSHIP. It's coming from a frame of neediness. When you said "I love you" to your mom (or sister, or daughter), was it EVER because you felt you had to to avoid losing them? OK, how about this, when you say it, is it because you had an inexplicable and OVERPOWERING urge to do so? Have you ever had to THINK about whether it's ok to say it or not? Like maybe your family member will be weirded out? NO. Because when you say it to them, you're GIVING value. You're showing that you care and are making them feel better. You never feel that you're giving anything AWAY, or that it will ever come back to bite you. (Some children do say it due to a fear of losing a parent).
So how about that girl you're fucking? The first time you wanted to say it, it came on suddenly and powerfully, right? Maybe it's a result of a shit test and you want to reassure her. Maybe she just did something really awesome for you. Or maybe you're holding her, it's a quiet moment, and you're thinking about her in your head. And at that moment, you WANT to say it. Like it practically jumps out of your mouth, and for AFCs it usually does before they can swallow it down. For the rest of us we stop and analyze it. "Do I really love her? Should I say it? How will she react? Will she say it back?" We ALL think this. I don't care how big of a mac daddy you are. The urge is genetic, evolutionary, and social. It's totally natural to want to hold on to her. We spend years battling our neediness, killing one-itis, and dissolving jealousy, obsession, and possessiveness. And those things is what "I love you" means. It's purely selfish, except when you're giving value as above.
When you tell a chick you love her, you kill attraction. We know what creates attraction: Dominance, challenge, value, etc. But when you tell her you love her, she KNOWS she has you (and if you say it and don't mean it, then you just opened the door for a shit storm of drama). As I mentioned in that other thread, you flick the switch from LOVER to PROVIDER, all in an instant. Women are ALWAYS trying to achieve this goal, and when say you love them, it's the same as saying, "ok, you win, you have me." Most AFCs think that "you have me" is the same as "I have you", which is totally wrong, and they learn that when she starts fucking other guys. In ALL of my experiences when I used to say it, "I love you" was the PINNACLE of the Relationship. Like we felt the best at that moment. Which creates the illusion that's it awesome. But what it REALLY means is that the Relationship IMMEDIATELY begins to degrade after that point. It ALWAYS happened.
The number one argument most guys give is "well, you can say it as long as you have the right FRAME." That's true. I can also hit her with my car and be like "that was your fault, baby." I can say stupid pointless shit and still close a girl. But that doesn't mean it's good game. Frame is very IMPORTANT, but it's not a fix-all. I see a lot of guys who deliberately do wrong things in Relationships, and they KNOW it, but then they use the excuse "oh, it's ok, because I have the right FRAME." I'm guilty of it too. That's why relationships and game require DISCIPLINE. After a while, you'll notice that you don't WANT to say "I love you" anymore, or lean in too close, or peck, or whatever, because you no longer feel needy.
No matter how strong your frame is, it's impossible to usurp the huge socially-conditioned meaning of those three words. You will NEVER be able to entirely defeat the automatic impressions she receives from hearing those words. Look at it like this: Do you think you could hand a girl a big diamond engagement ring and 100% convince her that it's just for fun and she shouldn't expect anything else? Good luck. "I love you" is like a verbal engagement ring. No amount of frame will sufficiently alter her perception of those "magic words".
If you REALLY love a woman and want to show it, you do so by LEADING her to wonderful new experiences. Obviously this means incredible sex, but not just that. This means always being dominant, putting her to do things for you (as Franco would say), ignoring negative behavior (shit tests), always reinforcing positive behavior, and just in general making her a better and happier person. If you truly love her, you give to her WITHOUT EXPECTATIONS. She doesn't OWE you anything in return, and you certainly don't own her. But guess what, she'll probably want to stick around of her own volition, in a Relationship that's fully on YOUR terms. What are those words REALLY worth, anyway? They make YOU feel better, sure. But saying those three short words won't give her NEARLY the long-lasting rush that hot sex or fantastic adventures will.
Seriuosly though, why do you want to say "I love you"? Really think about it.
In response to Lowdash's post in Relationships (http://www.fastseduction.com/discussion/fs?action=9&boardid=2&read=85041&fid=105), I said that it's NEVER ok to say "I love you" to a woman. I got replies on that thread and also private emails asking me to expound on this, so here it is.
2. Playfully during PU ("OMG, I love you!").
